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	<title>Comments for Canute's Efficient Running Site</title>
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	<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com</link>
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		<title>Comment on The grey zone by Ewen</title>
		<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/the-grey-zone/#comment-776</link>
		<dc:creator>Ewen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canute1.wordpress.com/?p=878#comment-776</guid>
		<description>Thanks Canute, I&#039;ll look forward to that post. I&#039;ve only been doing the drills and short hill sprints for a short time, but can feel some benefit in terms of stride-length and speed.

Regarding Rick&#039;s idea of leaving the Garmin and HRM at home - that&#039;s probably a good way to learn how to run by &#039;feel&#039;. I find the HRM is most useful for easy/low aerobic runs - thus preventing them from becoming &#039;grey&#039; runs. I can usually run the upper aerobic and threshold runs by feel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Canute, I&#8217;ll look forward to that post. I&#8217;ve only been doing the drills and short hill sprints for a short time, but can feel some benefit in terms of stride-length and speed.</p>
<p>Regarding Rick&#8217;s idea of leaving the Garmin and HRM at home &#8211; that&#8217;s probably a good way to learn how to run by &#8216;feel&#8217;. I find the HRM is most useful for easy/low aerobic runs &#8211; thus preventing them from becoming &#8216;grey&#8217; runs. I can usually run the upper aerobic and threshold runs by feel.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The grey zone by canute1</title>
		<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/the-grey-zone/#comment-775</link>
		<dc:creator>canute1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 01:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canute1.wordpress.com/?p=878#comment-775</guid>
		<description>Ewen,
Both groups performed the same training load, determined by multiplying time x intensity.  In other words, training load was calculated by multiplying length of time in zone 1 by 1, length of time in zone 2 by 2 and length of time in zone 3 by 3 and then adding these weighted times.  As a result of this method of matching load, the low intensity group spent more time training (100 hours v 75 hours). The distance covered was similar in both groups (80-90Km/week), though unless the low intensity group ran much slower, it is probable that they covered a slightly greater distance in the additional time.  Unfortunately Esteve –Lanao does not report whether or not the low intensity training was all near to VT, though during the 18 weeks of the main program they did 6 hours per week, suggesting an average pace of 4 min/Km.  Since 80% of the training was low intensity, the average pace of the low intensity is likely to have been in the range 4:15 to 4:30 min/Km (approx 6:48 – 7:12 min per mile).  For a sub-elite distance runner, 7 min per mile would be quite easy.
As for your question of how much high intensity is required, in the Esteve-Lanoa study it was approximately 2 high intensity sessions/week + regular weight training + one race per month   I agree with you that what is required probably depends on the individual .  However I think there is good reason to propose that older athletes have a greater need to develop their fast twitch fibres.  Mystery Coach recently sent me some interesting comments related to this issue.  In the near future,  I will post my thoughts on what older runners need to do to prevent deterioration of their fast twitch fibres.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ewen,<br />
Both groups performed the same training load, determined by multiplying time x intensity.  In other words, training load was calculated by multiplying length of time in zone 1 by 1, length of time in zone 2 by 2 and length of time in zone 3 by 3 and then adding these weighted times.  As a result of this method of matching load, the low intensity group spent more time training (100 hours v 75 hours). The distance covered was similar in both groups (80-90Km/week), though unless the low intensity group ran much slower, it is probable that they covered a slightly greater distance in the additional time.  Unfortunately Esteve –Lanao does not report whether or not the low intensity training was all near to VT, though during the 18 weeks of the main program they did 6 hours per week, suggesting an average pace of 4 min/Km.  Since 80% of the training was low intensity, the average pace of the low intensity is likely to have been in the range 4:15 to 4:30 min/Km (approx 6:48 – 7:12 min per mile).  For a sub-elite distance runner, 7 min per mile would be quite easy.<br />
As for your question of how much high intensity is required, in the Esteve-Lanoa study it was approximately 2 high intensity sessions/week + regular weight training + one race per month   I agree with you that what is required probably depends on the individual .  However I think there is good reason to propose that older athletes have a greater need to develop their fast twitch fibres.  Mystery Coach recently sent me some interesting comments related to this issue.  In the near future,  I will post my thoughts on what older runners need to do to prevent deterioration of their fast twitch fibres.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The grey zone by RICK</title>
		<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/the-grey-zone/#comment-774</link>
		<dc:creator>RICK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:34:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canute1.wordpress.com/?p=878#comment-774</guid>
		<description>I agree that low level aerobic training for as many hours as possicle with two hard sessions a week seems to give best results.
I remember Peter Keen [Chris Boardman#s sports science coach] saying that low level aerobic training such as club runs was junk miles, but he had to eat his words when Chris turned pro in Europe.
The result of training like the pro&#039;s [ a lot more volume at easy paces]was he smashed the world hour record.
Peter Keen had always recommended doing the bulk of your training at what he called level two [ 75-80% of max hr] replacing long rides 3 - 7 hours with 2 hour rides at level 2. I found it never really worked for me and I always raced better if i&#039;d done a winter of long sunday club runs!
Looking through my old running logs I can see my best periods have come from lots of easy running with 2 hard sessions per week [ just as Pete Magill recommends] I once got up to 14 hours per week but 9- 10 hours has produced very good results.
what i am coming to understand is most people run there aerobic runs way to fast and end up tired and stale.
I think Pete is right to say run on feel, leave the Garmin and hrmat home, only look at your watch after your run and never race these runs, run them relaxed.
I read of many bloggers who chart and time and worry about their every heart beat/rate, if only they ran by feel and relaxed!
no wonder they-me get tired and don&#039;t make progress.
thanks for the article, great stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that low level aerobic training for as many hours as possicle with two hard sessions a week seems to give best results.<br />
I remember Peter Keen [Chris Boardman#s sports science coach] saying that low level aerobic training such as club runs was junk miles, but he had to eat his words when Chris turned pro in Europe.<br />
The result of training like the pro&#8217;s [ a lot more volume at easy paces]was he smashed the world hour record.<br />
Peter Keen had always recommended doing the bulk of your training at what he called level two [ 75-80% of max hr] replacing long rides 3 &#8211; 7 hours with 2 hour rides at level 2. I found it never really worked for me and I always raced better if i&#8217;d done a winter of long sunday club runs!<br />
Looking through my old running logs I can see my best periods have come from lots of easy running with 2 hard sessions per week [ just as Pete Magill recommends] I once got up to 14 hours per week but 9- 10 hours has produced very good results.<br />
what i am coming to understand is most people run there aerobic runs way to fast and end up tired and stale.<br />
I think Pete is right to say run on feel, leave the Garmin and hrmat home, only look at your watch after your run and never race these runs, run them relaxed.<br />
I read of many bloggers who chart and time and worry about their every heart beat/rate, if only they ran by feel and relaxed!<br />
no wonder they-me get tired and don&#8217;t make progress.<br />
thanks for the article, great stuff.</p>
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		<title>Comment on If gravitational torque is a red herring, how do we run fast? by Simbil</title>
		<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/if-gravitational-torque-is-a-red-herring-how-do-we-run-fast/#comment-773</link>
		<dc:creator>Simbil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canute1.wordpress.com/?p=345#comment-773</guid>
		<description>Hi Canute,

Thanks for the response and apologies for the long delay, I&#039;m snowed under at the moment. 
I&#039;ve since had a re-think on this issue (again) and realise my comment can not work in the way I thought it might - more on that at the end of the post.

Firstly though I would like to look at the torque mechanisms. In running there is a forward torque induced by gravity whilst on support from mid stance to some point between mid and terminal stance and I think we both agree the rotation caused by this torque has to be dealt with to avoid an eventual face plant.
There are various mechanisms that could deal with this issue; forward landing, toe-off and leg swing whilst on support.
I think you suggest that a landing ahead is the main mechanism and I think it probably plays a part tough the inherent problems with a forward landing make it far from desirable.
Some runners use a toe off - a push at terminal stance cause the hips to move forward and the upper body to move backwards; a counter rotation of that experienced previously on stance due to gravitational torque. This is particularly noticeable in runners driving off from the blocks when the lean angle is very large.
Finally, there is leg swing. Whilst on stance with one leg, the other leg swings forwards. The forward swing of the leg pushes back at the hips and as the hips are supported by the grounded foot, the whole body is rotated backwards around the foot pivot point.
So it is conceivable that the forward gravitational torque is balanced by this rearward torque from leg swing in that one acts and then the other acts so that the net effect is balance. I think this is probably the main stabilising mechanism in efficient running and allowing a &#039;fall&#039; can automatically force a subconscious swing (and could force a subconscious overstride or toe off too depending on the runners habits and degree of &#039;fall&#039;).

My original point I now realise cannot work - not really for the reasons you gave, more because the torque of pulling and swinging the leg when not on support causes a counter torque that sends the upper body forwards - not a backwards balancing torque as I suggested i.e. pulling and swinging whilst unsupported has the opposite effect to a toe-off.

Hope that makes some sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Canute,</p>
<p>Thanks for the response and apologies for the long delay, I&#8217;m snowed under at the moment.<br />
I&#8217;ve since had a re-think on this issue (again) and realise my comment can not work in the way I thought it might &#8211; more on that at the end of the post.</p>
<p>Firstly though I would like to look at the torque mechanisms. In running there is a forward torque induced by gravity whilst on support from mid stance to some point between mid and terminal stance and I think we both agree the rotation caused by this torque has to be dealt with to avoid an eventual face plant.<br />
There are various mechanisms that could deal with this issue; forward landing, toe-off and leg swing whilst on support.<br />
I think you suggest that a landing ahead is the main mechanism and I think it probably plays a part tough the inherent problems with a forward landing make it far from desirable.<br />
Some runners use a toe off &#8211; a push at terminal stance cause the hips to move forward and the upper body to move backwards; a counter rotation of that experienced previously on stance due to gravitational torque. This is particularly noticeable in runners driving off from the blocks when the lean angle is very large.<br />
Finally, there is leg swing. Whilst on stance with one leg, the other leg swings forwards. The forward swing of the leg pushes back at the hips and as the hips are supported by the grounded foot, the whole body is rotated backwards around the foot pivot point.<br />
So it is conceivable that the forward gravitational torque is balanced by this rearward torque from leg swing in that one acts and then the other acts so that the net effect is balance. I think this is probably the main stabilising mechanism in efficient running and allowing a &#8216;fall&#8217; can automatically force a subconscious swing (and could force a subconscious overstride or toe off too depending on the runners habits and degree of &#8216;fall&#8217;).</p>
<p>My original point I now realise cannot work &#8211; not really for the reasons you gave, more because the torque of pulling and swinging the leg when not on support causes a counter torque that sends the upper body forwards &#8211; not a backwards balancing torque as I suggested i.e. pulling and swinging whilst unsupported has the opposite effect to a toe-off.</p>
<p>Hope that makes some sense.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The grey zone by Ewen</title>
		<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/the-grey-zone/#comment-770</link>
		<dc:creator>Ewen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 05:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canute1.wordpress.com/?p=878#comment-770</guid>
		<description>Canute, thanks for such a good summary of the study. I take it that both groups were running the same volume (kms per week), just that those with 80% low intensity were taking more time to complete the volume?

Also, does the VT (low intensity) training include running at paces much slower than VT? For example, I&#039;d presume VT pace would be about marathon race-pace and HR (99% aerobic), which doesn&#039;t seem THAT easy to me. For example, 3:00 per km for a 2:07 marathoner.

Personally, I&#039;m inclined to favour this type of training (big low, but some high), as there&#039;s not the risk of &#039;mechanical injury&#039; from the high intensity part, or the &#039;pressure&#039; of running a large proportion of runs at mid-intensity (grey).

What I&#039;d like to know, is how much high intensity is needed (for improvement), and how often? For example, would one session every 4 or 5 days (much less than 8%) be sufficient? Would higher weekly volume permit a smaller % of high intensity training? Similarly, would, say, 10% high intensity compensate for lower weekly volume. I&#039;m guessing the answers to these questions are that a program needs to be individualised for athletes with different strengths and preferences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Canute, thanks for such a good summary of the study. I take it that both groups were running the same volume (kms per week), just that those with 80% low intensity were taking more time to complete the volume?</p>
<p>Also, does the VT (low intensity) training include running at paces much slower than VT? For example, I&#8217;d presume VT pace would be about marathon race-pace and HR (99% aerobic), which doesn&#8217;t seem THAT easy to me. For example, 3:00 per km for a 2:07 marathoner.</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m inclined to favour this type of training (big low, but some high), as there&#8217;s not the risk of &#8216;mechanical injury&#8217; from the high intensity part, or the &#8216;pressure&#8217; of running a large proportion of runs at mid-intensity (grey).</p>
<p>What I&#8217;d like to know, is how much high intensity is needed (for improvement), and how often? For example, would one session every 4 or 5 days (much less than 8%) be sufficient? Would higher weekly volume permit a smaller % of high intensity training? Similarly, would, say, 10% high intensity compensate for lower weekly volume. I&#8217;m guessing the answers to these questions are that a program needs to be individualised for athletes with different strengths and preferences.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The beginning of a 3 year program by canute1</title>
		<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/the-beginning-of-a-3-year-program/#comment-766</link>
		<dc:creator>canute1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 23:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canute1.wordpress.com/?p=872#comment-766</guid>
		<description>Rick, yes, when running into a head wind, leaning into the wind is helpful becase the wind exerts a head-backward torque on the body while on stance, so a head-fuorwards gravitational torque is useful to counteract this.  I suppose you might also say that in zero wind, there is a small head-backwards torque to due air ressitance, so a sligth forward inclination is useful even when wind speed is zero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick, yes, when running into a head wind, leaning into the wind is helpful becase the wind exerts a head-backward torque on the body while on stance, so a head-fuorwards gravitational torque is useful to counteract this.  I suppose you might also say that in zero wind, there is a small head-backwards torque to due air ressitance, so a sligth forward inclination is useful even when wind speed is zero.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The beginning of a 3 year program by RICK</title>
		<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/the-beginning-of-a-3-year-program/#comment-765</link>
		<dc:creator>RICK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canute1.wordpress.com/?p=872#comment-765</guid>
		<description>By the way canute what about when running into a headwind, is leaning the body forward useful then, can your weight can by used to push against the resistance of the air/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way canute what about when running into a headwind, is leaning the body forward useful then, can your weight can by used to push against the resistance of the air/</p>
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		<title>Comment on The beginning of a 3 year program by RICK</title>
		<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/the-beginning-of-a-3-year-program/#comment-764</link>
		<dc:creator>RICK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:20:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canute1.wordpress.com/?p=872#comment-764</guid>
		<description>THANKS AGAIN FOR YOU COMMENTS, i found a good article on correct positioning uf the pelvis on BENSON running, I found that I&#039;ve been sitting in a bucket as they say and tilting my pelvis up helps a lot to aline my ankles,knees and hips and also shoulders, letting mE run smoother.
http://www.benson.com.au/default.asp?contentID=625</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THANKS AGAIN FOR YOU COMMENTS, i found a good article on correct positioning uf the pelvis on BENSON running, I found that I&#8217;ve been sitting in a bucket as they say and tilting my pelvis up helps a lot to aline my ankles,knees and hips and also shoulders, letting mE run smoother.<br />
<a href="http://www.benson.com.au/default.asp?contentID=625" rel="nofollow">http://www.benson.com.au/default.asp?contentID=625</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on The beginning of a 3 year program by canute1</title>
		<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/the-beginning-of-a-3-year-program/#comment-763</link>
		<dc:creator>canute1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 17:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canute1.wordpress.com/?p=872#comment-763</guid>
		<description>Rick, The opening and closing scenes of Jack Nirenstein’s video demonstrate that he has a sense of humor and suggest that perhaps he has his tongue in his cheek at other times in the video.  In the first few minutes, in which he lampoons other running styles, he makes the fundamental mistake of ignoring the effect of momentum.  Once a runner has accelerated to the desired running speed, only a relatively small amount of energy is needed to provide forward propulsion (- a billiard ball on a perfectly smooth flat surface would role forever without any further push).  The major energy consuming actions required when running at constant velocity are overcoming gravity to get oneself airborne again after each fall to earth, and getting the swing leg forward relative to the torso so as the support the body as it falls to earth.  Therefore when he lampoons the experts who emphasize the need to push against the ground and to need to get the legs forward, he is off the rails.   He has a good point when he lampoons the experts who state that one must maintain a lean for the ankles.  Leaning from the ankles in the first half of stance is clearly unhelpful as it results in braking; in the second half of stance it is helpful, but it occurs automatically, so the emphasis in Pose on leaning from the ankles is almost pointless - what is imporant is keeping the pelvis aligned in a way that avoids a forward slump from the hips.  He (and also Nicholas Romanov, the father of Pose) are on firmer ground in proposing that fast steps and short time on stance are generally efficient – though short time on stance is a trade off between the benefit of reduced braking and the risks associated with high ground reaction forces.  As for his views on religion and sex, I guess each individual has to form his/her own opinion – the laws of physics provide limited guidance in these domains</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick, The opening and closing scenes of Jack Nirenstein’s video demonstrate that he has a sense of humor and suggest that perhaps he has his tongue in his cheek at other times in the video.  In the first few minutes, in which he lampoons other running styles, he makes the fundamental mistake of ignoring the effect of momentum.  Once a runner has accelerated to the desired running speed, only a relatively small amount of energy is needed to provide forward propulsion (- a billiard ball on a perfectly smooth flat surface would role forever without any further push).  The major energy consuming actions required when running at constant velocity are overcoming gravity to get oneself airborne again after each fall to earth, and getting the swing leg forward relative to the torso so as the support the body as it falls to earth.  Therefore when he lampoons the experts who emphasize the need to push against the ground and to need to get the legs forward, he is off the rails.   He has a good point when he lampoons the experts who state that one must maintain a lean for the ankles.  Leaning from the ankles in the first half of stance is clearly unhelpful as it results in braking; in the second half of stance it is helpful, but it occurs automatically, so the emphasis in Pose on leaning from the ankles is almost pointless &#8211; what is imporant is keeping the pelvis aligned in a way that avoids a forward slump from the hips.  He (and also Nicholas Romanov, the father of Pose) are on firmer ground in proposing that fast steps and short time on stance are generally efficient – though short time on stance is a trade off between the benefit of reduced braking and the risks associated with high ground reaction forces.  As for his views on religion and sex, I guess each individual has to form his/her own opinion – the laws of physics provide limited guidance in these domains</p>
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		<title>Comment on The beginning of a 3 year program by RICK</title>
		<link>http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/11/01/the-beginning-of-a-3-year-program/#comment-761</link>
		<dc:creator>RICK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://canute1.wordpress.com/?p=872#comment-761</guid>
		<description>CHECK OUT THIS NEW VIDEO FROM GRAVITY RUNNING GURU JACK NIRENSTEIN, ANY COMMNTS?
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWx_wi0Tlcs&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CHECK OUT THIS NEW VIDEO FROM GRAVITY RUNNING GURU JACK NIRENSTEIN, ANY COMMNTS?<br />
<span style="text-align:center; display: block;"><a href="http://canute1.wordpress.com/2009/11/08/the-grey-zone/"><img src="http://img.youtube.com/vi/sWx_wi0Tlcs/2.jpg" alt="" /></a></span></p>
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